Tuesday, February 21, 2017

Cruising the Web

Mark Hemingway writes about the increase of anonymous sources being used in the media, particularly when it comes to covering the Trump administration.
Flynn is just the most prominent and recent example of this media phenomenon. Anonymous sources have dominated media coverage of the Trump presidency, on topics ranging from the president's private conversations with the president of Mexico to the White House reaction to Saturday Night Live sketches. It's been the defining characteristic of Trump coverage so far. Some of this is par for the course for any new administration. But with Trump, the anonymity dial has been turned up to 11. And this for an administration doing plenty of radical or questionable things in plain sight that can be reported on with pungent on-the-record interviews.

The media may protest that the Trump presidency is uniquely threatening and dishonest, and thus merits uniquely aggressive coverage, outside of the usual journalistic norms. But in so doing, they may paradoxically help him. Trump already won an election campaign in which his ostentatious denunciations of the dishonest media were a prominent theme
Given that a lot of the anonymous quotes could well be coming from career employees in the government who are appalled at working under a President Trump, we have no idea how much we should trust such leaks. We should all employ a healthy skepticism when we see stories that are composed of all or mostly all anonymous quotes.

Whatever was behind the firing of Mike Flynn for National Security Advisor, I think the country and the administration are better off with Trump's choice to replace him, U.S. Army lieutenant general H.R. McMaster. McMaster sounds like a very admirable man with the background from being one of the key planners of the surge.
After his success in Tal Afar, McMaster was among those who developed the surge strategy with General David Petraeus. Military journalist Thomas Ricks described McMaster as one of the "two most influential members of the brain trust" around Petraeus's planning for the surge. His reputation as a shrewd analyst of military strategy was boosted by the publication of his Dereliction of Duty. The 1998 book, which criticized the execution of the Vietnam War, focused particularly on mistakes made by President Lyndon Johnson, Defense secretary Robert McNamara, and the Joints Chiefs of Staff.

Most recently, McMaster was involved on a government panel to study how the United States should respond to a newly mobilized Russian threat.
His book, Dereliction of Duty, has suddenly become a best-seller on Amazon. I like the idea of having someone with the historical knowledge of what went wrong in both Vietnam and Iraq to be advising on national security. And now he's been part of a study group to figure out how to combat the rise of Russia's military action around the world.
POLITICO has learned that, following the stunning success of Russia’s quasi-secret incursion into Ukraine, McMaster is quietly overseeing a high-level government panel intended to figure out how the Army should adapt to this Russian wake-up call. Partly, it is a tacit admission of failure on the part of the Army — and the U.S. government more broadly....

McMaster’s response is the Russia New Generation Warfare Study, whose government participants have already made several unpublicized trips to the front lines in Ukraine. The high-level but low-profile effort is intended to ignite a wholesale rethinking—and possibly even a redesign—of the Army in the event it has to confront the Russians in Eastern Europe.

It is expected to have profound impact on what the U.S. Army will look like in the coming years, the types of equipment it buys and how its units train. Some of the early lessons will be road tested in a major war game planned for June in Poland. Says retired Army Chief of Staff General Gordon Sullivan: “That is all designed to demonstrate that we are in the game.”
I bet the Putin regime is not excited to see Flynn replaced with someone who has a background of trying to figure out how to confront Russia.

David French calls McMaster the "Neil Gorsuch of Generals" because he seems willing to criticize an executive and faulty advisers.
There’s something else, however, that McMaster shares with Gorsuch — a known hostility to executive overreach and a keen awareness of his proper role in a constitutional republic. Gorsuch has famously questioned the explosive expansion of the federal bureaucracy. In his seminal book, Dereliction of Duty, McMaster famously called out civilian and military leaders for their profound mistakes in the run-up to the Vietnam War. Central to his argument is the notion that generals can and should (consistent with the chain of command and respect for presidential authority) provide their independent judgment to the president, including by criticizing and pointing out the shortcomings of the president’s tactical and strategic plans. In other words, effective military leaders shouldn’t simply roll over when confronted with unreasonable presidential demands.

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General McMaster is going to need that knowledge of how administrations can get involved in unwinnable wars because of President Trump's vow to defeat ISIS> As M.G. Oprea writes, that is not going to be easy without major military involvement, something Trump has long opposed.
Shortly after entering office, President Trump asked his staff for a “comprehensive strategy” to defeat ISIS within 30 days. After all, this was one of his campaign promises—to do what the Obama administration had left undone. As this deadline approaches, we should ask ourselves what would actually be required to destroy ISIS.

The reality is, it would most likely necessitate a holistic and long-term approach in Iraq along the lines of George W. Bush’s 2007 surge. But this would cost the president significant political capital, especially with a public that has little taste for overseas adventures. Trump, despite his bluster, is unlikely to do this, which is why his “comprehensive strategy” on ISIS could be a non-starter.
The surge was a comprehensive strategy and General McMaster was one of his main architects. I assume that, before taking this job, he must have spoken with Trump about what he thinks would be involved in fighting ISIS. Somehow, I just don't see Trump going along with another surge-like approach to achieve that. President Obama's approach has proved that.
The comprehensive approach of the surge only works with a president who is willing to go all in. This strategy worked under the Bush administration, because Bush was willing to use all of his political capital in the last two years of his presidency to fully implement it. It failed under Obama, because he was not.

After U.S. troops withdrew from Iraq in 2011, the Obama administration fought terrorists in Iraq, including ISIS, with only one element of the comprehensive strategy proposed during the surge—drone strikes. This followed directly from Obama’s campaign promise of getting American troops out of Iraq, no matter the cost. He did not want to be a wartime president.

This strategy was always doomed. You can’t fight a group like ISIS and win over the disenfranchised Sunnis from a bunker in the Nevada desert. It requires a holistic approach, including outreach—which means boots—on the ground.
Trump campaigned on not getting further involved in the Middle East. Perhaps his supporters wouldn't mind if that is one promise that he wouldn't fulfill, but Trump has also made much of his criticisms of Bush for getting involved there in the first place.
The comprehensive approach of the surge only works with a president who is willing to go all in. This strategy worked under the Bush administration, because Bush was willing to use all of his political capital in the last two years of his presidency to fully implement it. It failed under Obama, because he was not.

After U.S. troops withdrew from Iraq in 2011, the Obama administration fought terrorists in Iraq, including ISIS, with only one element of the comprehensive strategy proposed during the surge—drone strikes. This followed directly from Obama’s campaign promise of getting American troops out of Iraq, no matter the cost. He did not want to be a wartime president.

This strategy was always doomed. You can’t fight a group like ISIS and win over the disenfranchised Sunnis from a bunker in the Nevada desert. It requires a holistic approach, including outreach—which means boots—on the ground.

When Trump said he would destroy ISIS, his supporters generally liked it. It made America sound strong. But ultimately it’s not what the working-class voters in the Rust Belt care about. They care about infrastructure, jobs, the economy, and getting a fair shake. They don’t care much about the Sunnis.

Most people, whether they voted for Trump or not, have no idea what would be involved in truly defeating ISIS. If they were told today that ISIS could be defeated, but that it would require billions of dollars and most of the administration’s attention for the next four years, few would support it.
And even if Trump did support such action, would he continue to support keeping the troops there indefinitely to forestall a return of ISIS or some other incarnation? I doubt it. That's why it always irritated me when Trump would make these grandiose promises on the campaign trail when I didn't sense that he had any idea of what would be involved to achieve that goal. He now has a National Security Advisor who knows what would be involved. We'll have to hope that the President listens to him.


Karol Markowicz highlights
the ignorance of basics civics by some prominent people on the left. Sally Kohn seems to think that Trump and Pence can be impeached and then we can have a special election in which Hillary could be elected. Double face palm. Star Trek's George Takei seems to have missed that Harry Reid engineered the nuking of the filibuster of presidential appointments. And several Democrats don't realize that the job of National Security Adviser doesn't have to be confirmed by the Senate. Michael Moore seems to think that the courts can choose between the winner of the popular vote and the Electoral College vote. Did he miss the 2000 election?
Everyone makes mistakes, of course. The bigger problem with this widespread lack of knowledge is that it leads to scary places. Is Kohn really that blasé about a “constitutional crisis”? Does Moore really not care that our entire political system would be in jeopardy if “the court” did what he asked?

Are people really willing to throw away the American political framework because a candidate they don’t like won an election?

I didn’t vote for Trump, but for all the concern that Trump is going to destroy America, the lack of faith and lack of support for our extremely successful democracy is what’s most worrisome. Thanks to the separation of powers, Trump can only do so much (shout-out to my second-grade teacher, Ms. Benson).
I suppose this sort of ignorance of the basic ways that the American political system works is a result of people getting all their news from Twitter and Facebook. All I can say is that I do my bit every year to make sure that the students I teach understand not only how the system works, but wy it was designed that way.

John Fund recently visited the LBJ Presidential Library and noticed similarities between LBJ and Trump.
As president, he cut a grandiose figure. He was a braggart and a frequent liar. He was suspicious of other countries, frequently saying, “Foreigners are not like the folks I am used to.” He had a reckless disregard for limits. He belittled and browbeat others to intimidate them and give him what he wanted. Historian Robert Dallek said that he “viewed criticism of his policies as personal attacks” and opponents of his policies “as disloyal to him and the country.”

He would bully and insult reporters, saying of one that he “always knew when he was around, because he could smell him.” He told whoppers about voter fraud in his elections. But he did get things done, dominating the political scene for good and for ill.

No, we’re not talking about Donald Trump. During a visit to the LBJ Presidential Library in Austin, I was struck by just how many parallels there are between Lyndon Johnson and Trump. Liberals knew all about Johnson’s faults in the 1960s. But it was a different, more respectful media era, and his faults were underreported. The media were also willing to overlook them until Vietnam became a fiasco, because reporters liked his domestic-policy priorities in civil rights and his new government spending.
After having read Robert Caro's enthralling books on Lyndon Johnson, particularly Master of the Senate and The Passage of Power, about his first year as president, I can say that LBJ was the true Master of the Art of the Deal.

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The search for historical parallels to Trump continues. I enjoy reading all of the efforts to find some sort of comparison to former leaders, but suspect that Trump is sui generis. Jeff Jacoby makes the effort to find comparisons to one of least-known presidents, Millard Fillmore.
When Millard Fillmore became the nation's 13th president upon the death of Zachary Taylor in 1850, he immediately plunged the White House and the Whig Party — one of the nation's two dominant political parties — into turmoil. On the day he took the oath of office, Fillmore petulantly dismissed every member of Taylor's Cabinet, which he resented for having ignored him when he was vice president. As a result, it took weeks — in one case, more than two months — before the new president's Cabinet members were approved. The Whigs, already riven by patronage quarrels and North-South tensions, grew even more polarized over Fillmore's policies. He was off to a bad start.

To an American looking back from 2017, the disorder that followed Fillmore's accession might almost prefigure the pandemonium in the Trump White House.

There are other echoes.

Fillmore presented himself as a loyal Whig, but his political career had begun with the Anti-Masons, a political movement tied to a bizarre hostility toward Freemasons. He was attracted, writes Paul Finkelman, a legal historian at Albany Law School, "to oddball political movements, conspiracy theories, and ethnic hatred." Even after becoming a Whig, he trafficked easily with anti-Catholic and anti-immigrant groups.
Jacoby traces through the history of Fillmore's administration, most known today for his having supported the Compromise of 1850 which did settle the question of how to treat the issue of slavery in the new territories won from the Mexican War but also included the most despicable law in American history, the Fugitive Slave Act.
When Millard Fillmore became the nation's 13th president upon the death of Zachary Taylor in 1850, he immediately plunged the White House and the Whig Party — one of the nation's two dominant political parties — into turmoil. On the day he took the oath of office, Fillmore petulantly dismissed every member of Taylor's Cabinet, which he resented for having ignored him when he was vice president. As a result, it took weeks — in one case, more than two months — before the new president's Cabinet members were approved. The Whigs, already riven by patronage quarrels and North-South tensions, grew even more polarized over Fillmore's policies. He was off to a bad start.

To an American looking back from 2017, the disorder that followed Fillmore's accession might almost prefigure the pandemonium in the Trump White House.

There are other echoes.

Fillmore presented himself as a loyal Whig, but his political career had begun with the Anti-Masons, a political movement tied to a bizarre hostility toward Freemasons. He was attracted, writes Paul Finkelman, a legal historian at Albany Law School, "to oddball political movements, conspiracy theories, and ethnic hatred." Even after becoming a Whig, he trafficked easily with anti-Catholic and anti-immigrant groups.
We'll have to wait and see how Trump fits Jacoby's comparison. Personally, I've long thought that the ante-bellum presidents from Fillmore through Pierce to Buchanan retired the prize for worst presidents. I am not thrilled with Trump as president, but I don't think he's going to sink to those depths and, actually has the opportunity to do some good things on tax reform and decreasing government regulation. I already think he's hit a home run with the Gorsuch nomination. So, while the bits of evidence are there for a facile comparison to Fillmore, I doubt that Trump, despite all the outrage across the country, will not come near to sinking to those depths.

I'm already enthusiastic about Nikki Haley at the United Nations. Unlike the Obama administration, she's willing to call out that institution for its anti-Israel bias. The Trump administration would never have abstained the odious resolution calling out Israel as Obama did.
The ambassador made clear that the Trump administration will not support the kind of resolution from which the Obama administration’s ambassador — Samantha Power — shamefully abstained, though Mrs. Haley was too polite to name the humiliated Ms. Power. “The outrageously biased resolutions from the Security Council and the General Assembly only make peace harder to attain by discouraging one of the parties from going to the negotiating table.”

“Incredibly,” Mrs. Haley said, “the U.N. department of political affairs has an entire division devoted entirely to Palestinian affairs. Imagine that. There is no division devoted to illegal missile launches form North Korea. There is no division devoted to the world’s number one state sponsor of terror, Iran. The prejudiced approach to Israeli-Palestinian issues does the peace process no favors, and it bears no relationship to the reality of the world around us. The double standards are breathtaking.”

The ambassador warned that it is “the U.N.’s anti-Israel bias that is long overdue for change,” and said America will not hesitate to speak out in defense of its friend in Israel. All this was going on while the press was questioning President Trump on what he was going to do about anti-Semitism. If his ambassador to the world body is any example, the answer is plenty. She has the principles of a Daniel Patrick Moynihan, the grit of a John Bolton, and the star power of a Jeane Kirkpatrick, and in her first press briefing she certainly made her point.

For all the constant fears of an anti-Muslim backlash across the country, there has been a rise in anti-Semitic threats and attacks in the U.S. There have been a rash of threats being called in to Jewish synagogues and community centers across the country.
In all, 48 JCCs in 26 states and one Canadian province received nearly 60 bomb threats during January, according to the JCCA, an association of JCCs. Most were made in rapid succession on three days: January 9, 18 and 31. A number of JCCs, including Orlando's, received multiple threats.
On Monday, another wave of bomb threats hit 11 JCCs across the country, bringing the total to 69 incidents targeting 54 JCCs in 27 states, according to the JCCA.
As Mark Oppenheimer points out, this is nothing new.
But here’s the thing: As bad as 2017 has been for anti-Semitic incidents, 2016 wasn’t great, either. Nor was 2015, when the Anti-Defamation League reported 90 anti-Semitic incidents on campuses, twice as many as the year before — a slow drip that has continued into this school year.

A journalist could stay very busy writing about anti-Semitic graffiti in higher ed — and not at right-wing Christian schools, but at ostensibly liberal ones. Last August, students at Swarthmore College, the progressive Quaker college outside Philadelphia, found two swastikas painted on a stall in a bathroom of the main library. A week later, they found another swastika on a tree in the school’s woods. There have been reports of anti-Semitic incidents at Oberlin College, the University of California at Los Angeles, Brown University and Northwestern University.
This is not due to Trump's election; it's been going on for years.

17 comments:

trigger warning said...

Speaking of Trump,

"SWEDEN’S capital was plunged into chaos on Monday as police were forced to fire at rioters after a violence erupted in an area described as high risk."
--- The Independent (UK)

"High risk", of course, is Leftospeak for Islamic envlave.

I wonder what the Swedish FM is smoking? :-D

tfhr said...

trigger,

It wasn't herring. Sweden is done unless they're willing to undertake drastic measures.

tfhr said...

"I bet the Putin regime is not excited to see Flynn replaced with someone who has a background of trying to figure out how to confront Russia." ~ Betsy

McMaster is a great choice but let's not lose sight of the fact that most of what you've been hearing about Flynn has been passed through the same media filter that is focused solely on bringing down Trump. As an outspoken critic of the Obama administration and an early Trump supporter, Flynn had been a HVT for a long time for the left.

As the Director of the DIA, Flynn had a considerable part in focusing his agency's intelligence efforts on an aggressive and resurgent Russia while Obama chose to be "more flexible" after his 2012 election. You'll remember that in the run up to the election Obama and his media lackeys were very critical of Romney's assessment that Russia posed the greatest future threat to US national security.

Flynn's emphasis, of course, was to counter the likes of ISIS and AQ while dealing with a Commander-in-Chief that preferred to think these organizations and other Jihadists no longer posed the threat they once did. Flynn felt that the Intelligence Community was not getting the job done in the face of this challenge had some significant reforms in mind for the IC.

McMaster is an innovator - and some would say, a reformist - so we shall see what becomes of him. He will certainly have his critics, as did Flynn. The question is, "Will the media listen to anyone but McMaster's critics?".

mardony said...

YeasandNays ~

Nice try with the misdirecting piety. But no cigar.

It's a rightwing core belief that the MSM coddled Obama and is hammering Trump. Its twin core belief is that if one digs hard enough (the MSM didn't), the corruption and scandals of the Obama administration will make insignificant the exaggerated misdeeds of Trump. These are two sides of the same paranoid rightwing coin.

And of course, the media is "the enemy of the American people".

tfhr said...

Mardony,

How many MSM "reporters" or "journalists" do you think voted for Bush, McCain, Romney, or Trump? Five percent? That might be generous.

Show me where the MSM pressed Obama with these questions:

What were you doing while Benghazi was under attack?

Did you know that Hillary Clinton had a privately owned server?

Where did those billions come from that you just gave to Iran?

Why did you repeat the lie, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."?

Mardony, we can play this game all day but if you cannot bring yourself that the media promoted Obama and has long been biased against Republicans, you're simply delusional.

Your stupid "media is the enemy" meme does great disservice to the importance of having an unbiased media.

mardony said...

Betsy's Page quotes from Mark Hemingway's National Review article on the expanded use of anonymous sourcing in media reporting on Trump. Hemingway was forthright enough to include this significant caveat that was omitted by Betsy:

"Trump himself loves citing anonymous sources when they suit his purposes. He spent years peddling wild rumors about President Obama being born in Kenya, and he's hardly in a position to be giving a lecture on the ethics of accurately relaying information."

tfhr said...

mardony,

It's pretty apparent that Trump, like the left, knows how to use the media. He had decades of experience doing just that in NYC.

That Trump repeated a "wild rumor" that originated in Hillary's first failed Presidential campaign, seems to have been another ironic moment lost on you in these threads. I'd say knowing, understanding, and employing the left's tactics works on the left, not just the right.

The question that you seem to struggle with is, "How is a biased, pliant media helpful?".

Here, do some reading on media bias:

Dr. Tim Groseclose is the Marvin Hoffenberg Professor of American Politics at UCLA. He has joint appointments in the political science and economics departments and has held previous faculty appointments at Caltech, Stanford University, Ohio State University, Harvard University, and Carnegie Mellon University.

Dr. Groseclose finds 7% of media identifies as Republican.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/media-bias-explained-only-7-of-journalists-identify-as-republicans/

If you are intellectually honest or even curious, you can read more here:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/8/republicans-media-bias-claims-boosted-by-scarcity-/

and here:

http://www.mrc.org/special-reports/liberal-mediaevery-poll-shows-journalists-are-more-liberal-american-public-%E2%80%94-and

mardony said...

tfhr (tired feeble hacky retches?) ~

Gateway Pundit, Washington Times, National Research Center? Isn't it astounding how your mainstream media is so left-wingy.
Why don't you just cut to the chase and quote from Mein Kampf?

Here's a piece on your avatar and righty zealot Groseclose:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/13/ucla-prof-says-stats-prove-school-admissions-illegally-favor-blacks.html

trigger warning said...

The Force of Godwin is strong in this one.

Ron K said...

mardony, you fit this quote to a t "It is a tale
Told by mardony, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

change idiot to mardony

tfhr said...

Here we go again with another idiot attempting to resolve "tfhr" into some sort of personal attack ending in...wait for it...Nazi slurs. We went through all of that when I was in Iraq, Mardony. You need to come up with something new.

You should also check out the articles I linked for you. After reading them, maybe you might understand why they don't appear in the NYT or the WaPo. I don't care if an editorial writer is biased - as long as they are up front - but I despise the practice of NOT covering or giving short shrift to stories that do not support the favored politician. There is an awful lot of that going on today and it's not a recent development.

Again, look at the stories I linked for you or just admit that you accept the bias for what it is - and abandon any further pretense that there is any balance of political representation whatsoever within the so-called main stream media.

Here's a thought for you: Maybe "journalists" should have a (D) or an (R) after their name in the same manner as we identify politicians. They should also have the company that owns their publication or network. It would look like this: Brian Williams, (D), NBCUniversal, a subsidiary of Comcast. I like a little truth in the packaging, just like when I look at the list of ingredients on a product in a grocery store. I think this will happen about the same time politicians start wearing their "sponsors" names on their coveralls when they are out campaigning. I'd like to see politicians decked out the same way we see NASCAR drivers.

Instead of her orange pantsuits, Hillary could've sported pink coveralls with simulated blood spatter and dollar bills next to the Planned Parenthood logo. Stop me before I make suggestions about how to trick out the campaign bus!

I've heard various riffs on how politicians should properly identify themselves and their corresponding party affiliations. I think I've read the NASCAR analogy somewhere before (could've been PJ O'Rourke) and while it's funny (and on some sort of metaphorical level it works because they both go in circles, get nowhere, make lots of noise, tempt spectators waiting to see a crash, etc.), it could shed more light on who is paying their politicians, so why not? It's also a practical wardrobe option (think how McCain could write "Maverick" on the back of his coveralls and how much time that would save him from having to explain that he's a "maverick") and best of all, thanks to the depths to which campaigning politicians are willing to plumb, sponsorship logos will never be beneath them.

The question is how to get the media to be as honest about themselves as politicians! How is that for low expectations?! I suppose someone will see that a niche (more like an impassible canyon) exists and step in to offer less editorialized news content. Fox did that to take advantage of the complete lack of conservative content in news coverage and editorial content, much to the chagrin of business competitors and lefty politicians. It also really hacks off dishonest leftist scumbags that cannot tolerate another point of view - that would be you, Mardony.

mardony said...

Ron K ~

"There's many a man has more hair than wit."
(Shakespeare: Comedy of Errors)

mardony said...

tfhr ~
At Auschwitz, Jewish concentration camp prisoners were tattooed with numbers on their wrists, some with triangles underneath, so they could be identified. Striking coincidence.

tfhr said...

Your point, Mardony?

Are you drawing a comparison between the industrialized slaughter of Jews (and others) at the hands of the National Socialist Workers Party with mockery of a biased media and sleazy political campaigns?

Please do elaborate - I find your struggle to cope with Hillary's implosion to be both bizarre and amusing - and sometimes I wonder how far you will sink. This could be a telling moment, so please, do tell.



mardony said...

tfhr ~
you want reporters branded like Nazis wanted Jews branded. Are you too onvious for,yourself?

tfhr said...

Mardony,

"Onvious"? It's obvious to me that you are hanging by a thread to reality if you think my desire to have the press act impartially - even some of the time - is the equivalent of genocide.

Besides the fact that your insane comparison is just simply bad form and trivializes one of the horrors of the Holocaust, it begs the question, "Why wouldn't you want an impartial press, or in the absence of that, why would you be against honest representation of one's own bias?".

We've already heard a number of leftist snowflakes equate Trump's victory to 9-11, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see you jump of a similar ledge.

tfhr said...

Mardony,

Are you a Mika fan? I'll bet you are.

Here's a gem from Mika:

Controlling "exactly what people think" is the job of the media, MSNBC's Mika Brzezinski boldly declared Wednesday morning.

While discussing President Trump's entreaties to the American people to remain skeptical of the press, Bzezinski worried that if the economy turns south, Americans may end up trusting him over the media.

"And it could be that while unemployment and the economy worsens, he could have undermined the messaging so much that he can actually control exactly what people think," Brzezinski said. "And that, that is our job."

https://news.grabien.com/story-brzezinski-our-job-control-exactly-what-people-think

Is this how you "think"? It would explain a lot!!!