Saturday, March 31, 2012

Yes, Joe, it would make my hair curl

Our friendly vice president-slash-national historian has taken a look at the history of the 20th and 21st centuries and found even more to praise in his boss.
Vice President Joe Biden today assured a group of campaign donors in Wisconsin that Republican criticism of President Obama’s leadership style doesn’t match up with what he’s witnessed firsthand.

“I’ve watched him make decisions that would make another man or woman’s hair curl,” Biden told the crowd of 150 inside the Italian Community Center in Milwaukee, according to a pool reporter on scene.

Biden, who has said he’s the last man in the room with Obama before a tough call, often attests that his boss has a “backbone like a ramrod.”

And today he said that mettle — and the “serious problems” Obama faced upon taking office — put the president in a class of his own.

“I think I can say … no president, and I would argue in the 20th century and including now the 21st century, has had as many serious problems which are cases of first-instance laid on his table,” Biden said. “Franklin Roosevelt faced more dire consequences, but in a bizarre way it was more straightforward.”

The vice president claimed that the complexity of the 2008 financial crisis presented challenges in a way the Great Depression of 80 years ago did not.
Oh, geez. Why can't he stop that befuddled idolatry. Yes, ordering the raid on Osama biin Laden was a good move. But was that more courageous than approving the D-Day landing which had a much greater cost if it failed? FDR in allowing it and Eisenhower in making that decision showed more courage than any moment of Obama's presidency. Yet Biden insists on regarding it as the "most audacious plan" in 500 years." It is so sick-making.

And Joe is mighty proud that he gets to be the last man in the room when The Man makes those dangerous decisions. Like encouraging the House and Senate to go through with their gimmickry to cram through Obamacare. And now facing the results of an unpopular bill that is costing way more than promised and set to raise the cost of health care for everyone. It sure would have made my already curly hair curl even more to have witnessed that. Or as he approved his $800 billion stimulus than any intelligent analysis would have predicted would be a failure because shovel-ready projects just aren't as shovel-ready as The One thought. Or maybe being able to witness Obama's decision to ignore the recommendations of his own debt commission and to do nothing about rising, almost insurmountable fiscal problems arising from our unsustainable mandatory spending. Or perhaps it would have been swell to have been in the room when Obama turned down the possibility of a grand bargain last summer for tax reform as well as raising the debt ceiling.

I suppose Biden just can't help bloviating about the greatness of his boss since it makes his own existence seem more historic. But why insult his audience's intelligence by making such claims about the tough decisions that Barack Obama has faced in his time in office? No one, even Obama's more fervent admirers believes this level of brown-nosing grandiosity.

Look, we know that both Obama and Biden are history-challenged. I just wish they'd stop rubbing our noses in their own ignorance.


Rick Caird said...

I really doubt Biden is the last man in the room before important decisions. No one, and that includes Obama, trusts Biden's advice.

I also fail to see why the call to go after Bin Laden was a tough call or a "gutsy" call. If Obama had decided not to go and it got out, he would not have been around for the 2012 elections.

mark said...

How about making sense of your last sentence? Would Obama have been impeached? Obama probably would have denied the opportunity existed, much like Bush did regarding Tora Bora. That (additional) failure by Bush didn't prevent him from being re-elected, much less running again.
Bush vowed to get OBL and failed.
Obama promised to go after him and succeeded.
And republicans just can't stand that Obama showed W up after the latter said he "just wasn't concerned" about the man who killed 3000 people on our soil.
BTW: Is Biden using hyperbole? Of course. That's what he does. That's like asking if Cheney is a war criminal.

tfhr said...

I can't believe you want to go down the "what if" lane on this one.

Bill Clinton called off multiple efforts to capture, kill, or obtain bin Laden. His Secretary of State's daughter's friend, the current ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, advised the Clinton Administration NOT to accept the Sudan's offer to hand bin Laden to the United States.

To be fair, it wasn't just Rice, but Richard "Don't Blame Me" Clarke and Sandy "SCIF Pants" Berger also had some say in the bad decisions by Bill Clinton as well.

You made an unsupported comment about Tora Bora. Is it your assessment that no effort was made to capture or kill bin Laden? Or are you just saying that we should not have used Afghans as part of the effort? I think you should read what General Tommy Franks has to say about the event since he was there and you were not.

Could've, should've, would've doesn't count for much and the death of bin Laden has not eliminated the threat from radical Islam. That was the point of Bush's comment but you'd have to be a cynical Progressive or an idiot that has deliberately ignored the world wide conflict raging for decades not to to understand that. We've been at war with radical Islam since at least 1979 with the takeover of our embassy and the struggle continues around the globe with various factions whether it is Hezbollah, Iran proper, al Qaeda or it's variants, or individual Jihadists determined to wage war against the West. Killing bin Laden is satisfying but does not put an end to a war that holds growing danger for us all. The potential for more devastating attacks against the United States exists now and grows with each passing year.

Biden's comments were typical of the idiocy we've come to expect from him. When he's not making some sort of racist remark about people with Indian accents working at 7-11's and Dunkin' Donuts, he's brown-nosing Obama because he's that stupid and because there really isn't much for him to praise with regard to Obama's performance.

Rather than worrying about Biden's next glaring reveal, I'd be worried that gasoline is now over $4/gal across much of the country and rising. You should be concerned about that right now because that will ultimately impact voters more than the subject matter of the forthcoming Hollywood adventure film about the raid or Joe Biden's lack of historical perspective.

And the election is all you really care about, now isn't it? It wasn't about "health care" or you wouldn't have signed on for the ridiculous and likely "unconstitutional" ObamaCare travesty. It wasn't about protecting the country or you wouldn't be sitting still for the Obama administration's flailing foreign policy visa vis Russia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, and the rest of the Middle East and it's "Arab Spring", or our own borders. You don't seem to be interested in breaking our dependence on oil from the Middle East and Venezuela or you'd be demanding a green light for Keystone and other domestic petroleum and natural gas solutions.

No, it's just about advancing "Progressive" agendas and that endeavor has just about run out of gas. Or did it run on windmill power?

And finally, you topped it all off with an irresponsible accusation suggesting that a former Vice President is a war criminal. You are nothing, if not consistent, mark.

mark said...

Coming from the person who excused Bush's inaction on several warnings that OBL was going to attack, your hindsight about what Obama should have done is a joke. I have no doubt that Obama has made mistakes on foreign (and domestic) policy. But you have no credibility. Why would anyone, given your record of idiotic statements and dangerous incompetence, listen to you?

tfhr said...


I don't believe I said anything about what Obama should have done with regard to bin Laden but rather that he is doing nothing with regard to foreign policy to help this country visa vis Russia, Iran, etc. Show me where I'm wrong.

The death of bin Laden is all you've got and that accomplishment is largely built on the intelligence gathered by the people you condemn as "torturers". Bush didn't invent bin Laden, so I'm puzzled why you think it is appropriate to blame him for OBL's actions.

You didn't respond to your overreach on Tora Bora, I notice. No surprise. You didn't respond to the fact that Clinton had opportunities to deal with bin Laden but passed.

But now you've come up with "several warnings" for 9-11. Really? Please provide this overwhelming and conclusive evidence.

In the past you pointed only to the one PDB for your sourcing though you've never once given us the benefit of your wisdom by pointing out the actionable intelligence within that brief. Nobody else has either, for that matter. Why do you suppose that would be the case?

I know, I know, you wanted meetings and you probably figured a law could have been passed in August 2001 prohibiting box cutters and Arabs on airplanes but short of that, I'm not sure what else you wanted. Oh right, you were the one that wanted every aircraft grounded on that day. Yes, I remember now.

For a guy that was so opposed to the Patriot Act, it amazes me how you wanted Bush to round up any and all Arab males in country and prevent any more from entering on the basis of a single PDB and your other magic "warnings".

Speaking of airplanes, I was just out by BWI and noticed that they're charging $4.06/gal at some of the gas stations there. Now you'd think with prices like that, the President of the United States would want to replace as much foreign oil with domestic oil as possible, wouldn't you? Nope. Even though Obama inherited gasoline prices below $1.90 when he came into office, we now just keep sending our money to the Middle East. I bet that really curls Ole Joe's hair plugs! It should.

mark said...

Lie #1: I never said I wanted all aircraft grounded on 9/11.

Lie #2: I never said that all male Arabs should be rounded up.

Lie #3: I never opposed the Patriot Act. I did question some of the components, just as I've questioned the practicality of security measures at airports.

But I suppose you can't help yourself. Last week you claimed I wanted the government to pay for my health-club membership. An idiotic, bizarre lie.

Besides the pdb, Bush was briefed by CIA agents three months before 9/11. (I'm surprised someone working in the intelligence community didn't know that. Hmmmm). No, it wasn't hard evidence of when and where an attack might occur, but it merited more attention than he was dedicating to cutting brush on his ranch.

I think now's the time for you to make an idiotic joke about me driving a Chevy Volt. Because cheering for the failure of American technology is funny.

Dr Weevil said...

So what was Bush supposed to do to prevent the 9/11 attacks, 'mark'? He didn't have any specific names of people to look for, or any specific information on what kind of attack to expect, just a generic warning that something big might be coming. It's perfectly obvious that the only way he could have prevented the attack is by methods such as grounding all planes or deporting all Arab males that he couldn't do (and didn't want to do) even after the attack. Please be specific: what should he have done?

mark said...

Repubs feel perfectly free to criticize Clinton for not going after OBL, as tfhr did earlier in the thread:
"Bill Clinton called off multiple efforts to capture, kill, or obtain bin Laden."

How can anyone criticize Clinton for not getting OBL, and then give Bush a pass for eight months of doing nothing on terrorism despite several warnings? The incoming president doesn't inherit a clean slate. He has to deal with the problems/failures of the previous president(s). You don't have to be an expert on military-intelligence to grasp that piece of logic.

Dr Weevil said...

How about answering the question, 'mark'? What could Bush have done that he wasn't doing that would have prevented the 9/11 attacks, would have been constitutional, and would not have been based on knowing things that he did not in fact know, and could not know (like precisely what Mohammed Atta had in mind)?

tfhr said...


Bob and weave as you must, but at least try to answer the question. What could Bush have done that would have been effective in countering the threat? Clinton could have had bin Laden by the hands of the government in Khartoum. Repeatedly. Would you care to hear about a few other offerings and options? All that and I still don't blame Clinton for the acts of a terrorist. I only blame him for failing to recognize that we were a country at war. He is not alone in that error but most of us realize that now though it is disturbing, to say the least, that Dem leaders and their minions believe we can resume ignoring the threat once again.

Also, please provide a link to your claim, that "Bush was briefed by CIA agents three months before 9/11." If true, that would have preceded the PDB. Did this "brief", as you describe, provide intelligence that the PDB would have corroborated?

As for Volts and American technology, mark, I'm rather proud of our ability to advance technologically. The problems start when people put their politics AHEAD of the current state of the art and obligate us to expensive failures like Solyndra and the Volt.

mark said...

"I only blame him (Clinton)for failing to recognize that we were a country at war"
Again, that makes no sense. Did the war that Clinton failed to recognize stop when Bush was inaugurated? Just what did Bush do during this "war" in the first eight months of his presidency? He had the pdb, a meeting with CIA agents in which he reportedly told the agents, "okay, you've covered your ass". (I was wrong about the timing. The visit was at the time of the PDB.) There was also an increase in "chatter", according to the military-intelligence community (perhaps you were out-of-the-loop on that one).
One action: He could have insisted that the FAA step up security.

The failure of Solyndra and the problems with the Chevy Volt doesn't equal the failure of alternative energy. Once again, your hatred of Obama is leading you to make an idiot of yourself.

equitus said...

It's very clear to me what mark thinks President Bush should have done to capture bin Laden.

Bush should have reached out to the State Senator Obama from Illinois and asked him what he should do.

mark said...

Close, equitus. I wish Bush had reached out to Obama about invading Iraq. He might have saved W from making very possibly the worst foreign-policy decision in history.

Barb the Evil Genius said...

Why should the President of the United States asked a community organizer, junior senator from Illinois who never seemed interested in voting more than "present" on anything, unless it involved babies dying in closets, for advice? And if Obama could have handled Iraq so well, why isn't he doing any better in Afghanistan? You know, the "right" war?

mark said...

On your blog (the "evil genius" one, not the "doll design" one) you called yourself evil and a Christian. Pick a side.

But to answer your question: Obama was right about Iraq, and 4000+ troops would be alive today if Bush had followed Obama's lead. Only the guilt of being duped into supporting the war prevents most supporters from acknowledging it was a disaster. I haven't heard too many repubs crowing about W's "successes", foreign or domestic. In fact, besides Romney's bizarre statement about Bush staving off a depression*, the few comments have been negative.

*if a depression was prevented, it was Obama's doing, as many economists have said.