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Tuesday, July 14, 2009

The dangers of relying on international opinions

Collin Levy writes today in the WSJ about Sotomayor's advocacy of looking to international judicial opinions.
In a speech to the American Civil Liberties Union of Puerto Rico in April, Judge Sotomayor explained that "ideas have no boundaries," and that "international law and foreign law will be very important in the discussion of how to think about the unsettled issues in our own legal system." To discourage the use of foreign or international law, she added, would "be asking American judges to close their minds to good ideas."
We've seen some recent decisions where Supreme Court justices have referred to international opinions in their majority decisions in striking down capital punishment for those under 18 in Roper v. Simmons and in striking down laws against sodomy in Lawrence v. Texas.
Cases like Roper and Lawrence fit squarely into that area of overseas law most sought after for borrowing by the more liberal justices of the court -- that is, the realms of moral or social policy. The problem with such inspiration is that it is inherently subjective and arbitrary. The laws of the world are infinitely diverse, and praising one necessarily condemns another. Cherry-picking desirable law introduces the very kind of legal chaos our Constitution was designed to prevent. If one judge may look to the courts of Western Europe for expansion of liberal thoughts on human rights, why may another not look to decidedly less liberal ideas?

Iran allows women who appear without a hijab on the streets to be lashed 74 times. China limits families to bearing one child. Even the democracies of Western Europe have laws that differ broadly from ours. Few countries, for instance, share our rules protecting the rights of the accused, or have the U.S.'s constitutionally mandated separation of church and state.

In his dissent from the court's reliance on foreign law in Roper v. Simmons, Justice Antonin Scalia wrote that "The Court should either profess its willingness to reconsider all these matters in light of the views of foreigners, or else it should cease putting forth foreigners' views as part of the reasoned basis of its decisions. To invoke alien law when it agrees with one's own thinking and ignore it otherwise is not reasoned decision making, but sophistry."
Should we abandon the exclusionary rule just because most other countries don't have one? Even our abortion laws tend to be less restrictive than other countries, including European ones. We didn't see these same fans of international standards looking to the rest of the world when it came time to rule on partial birth abortion. Perhaps that is because the majority of countries have limitations on when abortions can be done during a pregnancy. Somehow that standard seems less influential when it doesn't support the policy that the justices want to implement. That is why it is so dangerous, as Levy says, to cherry pick which international standards they want to apply and when they want to look at those standards and when they want to close their eyes to them. That is not what American judges should be doing. That is fine for the policy-makers, the legislator and executive, not the judge. Let them survey international standards when they craft their laws. But the judges can't hopscotch around international law codes to fish out supporting statutes whenever they support their preferred position and then ignore them when they don't. And it is telling that Sotomayor is ready to endorse such a selective approach to jurisprudence.

14 comments:

Towering Barbarian said...

Ah, yes! The old "But Tommy does it!" arguement that every 5 year old child instinctively seizes upon when told no. The proper answer to that usually being "And if Tommy jumps off the edge of a cliff does that mean you would too?". Smarter children usually get the point of that. The average liberal does not. ^o^

John A said...

Laws of other nations should not be cited, and largely not be a major influence in our courts, excepting cases in which terms of a signed [ratified] treaty are involved.

Yet, some knowledge of foreign law is inescapable in the modern world and will influence opinions in various ways. My own opinion of Ireland, for example, is lowered when I read of attempts to keep a 12-year-old rape victim from [going to England for] obtaining an abortion. Or simple possession of a swastika being a felony (do not carry a copy of Shirer`s Rise and Fall of the Third Reich in a German airport, or at least obscure the cover`s swastika).

Bill B. said...

What exactly is wrong with taking good ideas from whatever source around the world?

Rarely have I seen a clearer example of the close-minded, xenophobic anti-intellectualism of the failed right wing.

Just what are you so afraid of? Why do you imagine you are better off learning nothing from other cultures and countries?

So Cal Jim said...

Typical of lefty judges. If American law won't support the ruling you want to make, then just shop around the world until you find a foreign law that does.

David said...

It is entirely appropriate for members of the *legislative and executive* branches to research ideas from governments around the world, discuss them, and decide which ones should be applied in an American context. For the *judiciary* to do so, though, would exalt this branch to the position of philosopher-kings, with unrestrained power over all Americans, rather than interpreters of the written law.

It's increasingly clear that many if most "progressives" do not respect the separation of powers, or indeed the rule of law at all.

Pat Patterson said...

Bill B...ah, why bother. That statement as usual is poorly thought out and poorly expressed. Try again when a coherent thought strikes. There is a huge difference between using other nation's laws as precedent without those laws coming from the legislature and simply good ideas?

Don't you like our legislatures Bill?

tfhr said...

Biddle,

What have you got against Sharia?

NomiAnnzHere said...

We've allowed a large amount of the world's views & their followers into our land, and now ... it is truly taking a hit on us! This whole left side is enjoying their disfunctional power, and it's up to us to not sit on our tooshes and hemhaw over their HUGE power-mongering mistakes that they are making left and right!

And going on with what Barbarian said, I think that they would jump off the cliff, and whine until someone comes for them, and then blame someone who wasn't even there for pushing them off that cliff.

All of them are trouble makers! And we need to get them ousted!! We need to start a rebellion to where we tell those who are running for office AND those who are already in this: You get nothing after your out of office the $$$ stops when you leave. You can be in office "SERVING THE PEOPLE" for 1 term ... and then IF you have served the PEOPLE ... and made this a better land to live in, THEN, only if you're taking care of US, you can have another chance to run for second term! And ONLY if you have SERVED THE PEOPLE WELL can you run for a third and last term! AND NO RETIREMENT MONEY WILL GO WITH YOU WHEN YOU LEAVE!!!

THE END!

master.of.disaster said...

Sharia law would be a terrible mistake to adopt in America, frt.

Have you got any evidence that anyone is proposing that?

tfhr said...

master of biddle,

Since you've taken the opportunity to answer for Biddle but not surprisingly missed the point of an obviously rhetorical question, I will try and help you out.

I will start by reminding you that we have these people that we elect to create our laws. We call them legislators and we send them to the legislature to...are you ready...to legislate.

I know that's a really big word for you but if you can just remember what that means you'll be alright. Are you ready? It means to create or pass laws. Pretty simple, right?

Now here is where it gets a little tricky though it shouldn't be. Laws, as written by legislators, can and often are reviewed by judges. Judges get to wear really neat black robes and are asked to be impartial...oops...that's not a word you've ever heard before but just try to imagine making up your mind about something without entering your own very special brand of politics! Have you ever done that before? (Feel free to answer because that's not actually a rhetorical question!)

Anyway, the judge has to make impartial decisions based on laws created by American legislators and the rulings of past courts in the United States. That's how we, as Americans, are protected by our own laws, not the laws that a Finnish, Japanese, or Bolivian legislature has created.

When judges use laws from countries other than our own they are stepping beyond the bounds of our legal system and their very place within it.

I'm very reassured to hear that you would not like to see Sharia come into practice in the United States. While it would be nice to end on a note where we finally agree on something I wonder if you know that the United Kingdom has officially sanctioned the powers for Sharia judges to rule on a variety of domestic legal issues? There is even talk of such a thing in Canada too.

With that in mind, how comfortable are you with American judges looking abroad for determining legal issues here at home? (That's not a rhetorical question either)

So Cal Jim said...

Bill B. & Master.of.disaster, you two display appalling ignorance of:
(1) the whole reason behind the idea of the "rule of law",
(2) what sovereignty means, and
(3) How our "federal" government was designed and how it is supposed to work.

So, Bill & Master Disaster, let me give you a quick tutorial. Now please read this slowly so you can understand it.

RULE OF LAW
The notion of a society based upon the "Rule of Law" simply means that every citizen, whether rich or poor, average working stiff or elected office holder (e.g., president, senator, etc.) are subject to the SAME laws. FURTHER, because our laws are codified, every citizen is aware of (or can easily educate themselves of) the specific law(s) that will apply to their individual and specific cases.
If judges are allowed to consider foreign laws, then citizens will never know what laws will apply to their cases. This will inevitably lead first to a loss of confidence in the fair administration of the law and then to outright contempt for the law and law makers. This is NOT a healthy condition for any society.

SOVEREIGNTY
The very essence of any nation is "sovereignty." Which means, Bill & Master Disaster, that a "sovereign nation has the right and power to decide for itself how it will conduct it's affairs. Foreign powers may NOT dictate what laws a sovereign people will follow. For example, "sovereign" Nation A may freely choose NOT to follow the laws enacted by foreign Nation or Power B. The citizens of Nation A, therefore, may depend that in whatever legal controversy they become embroiled, no representative of Nation B will be able to force the application of his nation's laws (those of B) in the disposition of the suit.
Thus, citizens of the USA (because we are a "sovereign" nation) should be able to depend that their legal issues will be settled by the laws of the USA and not by those of some foreign nation or power. If Americans cannot depend that their cases will be settled by American laws, then we truly are not "sovereign."

OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
In our government, ONLY the people's representatives in the legislature (the House of Representatives and the Senate) are supposed to make the laws. In our system of government, neither the executive (the President) nor the judiciary (the Supreme Court and all inferior courts) have the power to make or enact laws. At least, that's how our Founding Fathers designed it.
Therefore, if a foreign law appears to be a wise law - one that may be worth adopting - then it falls to the legislative bodies to adopt and enact. NOT TO THE STINKING JUDGES!

Bill & Master Disaster, I hope this helps you understand the issue more clearly.

Bill B. said...

OK, further explanations from frter and from So Cal help explain why those two are so confused and so wrong.

As far as I know, no one is actually proposing that the judiciary adopt laws from other lands. Feel free to reply if you have other information.

Once again the base partisans of the right have invented a strawman argument, and argued bitterly against it. Sorry boys, try a bit more honesty and you may get somewhere.

equitus said...

As far as I know, no one is actually proposing that the judiciary adopt laws from other lands.

And no one accused anyone of that. tfhr and SCJ were addressing your advocating using SCOTUS use international law as a basis for decision making. (post 3)

How trollish, BB. You should be sent to bed without dinner.

Pat Patterson said...

Then what exactly were you referring to about, "...taking good ideas from whatever source," if you weren't referring to the topic at hand, SCOTUS. Are you now admitting that your comment had nothing to do with the thread?

In 2003 then Justice O'Connor argued that the court should be mindful of foreign decisions and precedents in ruling. While justice Breyer had cited foreign precedents in some of the rulings the Court had made.

It seems obvious that Americans want to abide by their own written laws and not be blindsided when a judge says, "Ah, but in Xenu v Klaatu from Europa District Court the ruling was that the defendant should be vaporised instantly." Thomas More put it more succinctly when he asked his tormentors what law had he broken, where was his crime written?

http://tinyurl.com/mua86t